A great program director can adapt to any format. They study the needs of the audience, adjust to the content, and take the experiences they’ve gained coaching talent, analyzing ratings, developing a social strategy, reacting to breaking news, writing imaging, and creating unique promotions and programming to energize the radio station’s they’re tasked with managing.
But that doesn’t mean it’s easy.
If you look at the News/Talk format today, you’ll find a number of talented brand managers are now guiding powerful brands after previously making an impact in sports radio. John Hanson, Kevin Graham, Scott Masteller, and Brian Long are just a few who have made that jump, and been thrust into the fire whether ready for it or not. To their credit, they’ve each made smooth transitions and have led their brands thru a few challenging situations, proving one doesn’t need to spend a lifetime in a particular format to be an effective leader in it.
Though sports and news may differ in content, the fundamentals to executing successful talk radio apply to both formats. I was curious to learn what differences and similarities they’ve noticed between the two formats, how they’ve altered their imaging approach to connect with a different demographic, what their daily content process includes when deciding which issues to focus on, and whether or not the controversies surrounding President Trump are good or bad for their hosts and their radio station’s ratings. Below is my conversation with Brian, John, Scott, and Kevin. Enjoy!
Jason Barrett:What are the biggest similarities and differences in programming a News/Talk station vs. a Sports talk brand?
Brian Long, PD at KOGO: Sports stations by nature have seasonal themes. The content is normally following the local teams ups and downs, trades etc.. This is similar to how N/T has election cycles, kids back to school, tax day, etc.. The biggest difference I see is that N/T frequently is forced to shift on a dime. You might have a great show planned with some high profile guests that must be scrapped due to an unplanned news event like an out of control wild fire. N/T forces you to operate with much more urgency with decisions on programming to effectively cover breaking news as it happens. Unfortunately, this typically seems to happen at off hours of the day and night. That’s not to say big breaking stories don’t happen in sports talk that require a pivot, it’s just less frequent.
John Hanson, PD at WCCO: Fundamentally, I consider them to be just about the same on the talk side, but with different starting points. So often now a sports story will bleed into the news cycle, and a news story will become part of sports. The ideas of being interesting, having a point, having a takeaway, and having pacing and good teases are all the same though. And personalities win. What’s different is often what the audience expects. A sports audience primarily expects to be entertained. A news talk audience wants more information and more to think about, albeit, often times, as long as the line of thinking aligns with their own.
Kevin Graham, PD at WBAP/KLIF: The only difference in my opinion is the content. Otherwise, it’s similar from the standpoint of servicing your local community/listeners (in sports talk your local sports listeners) in providing information, opinions, analysis and entertainment. You still have to manage your talent to best maximize PPM principals as well as provide content that interests your target listener. From a news staff standpoint, it’s providing fair and balanced coverage of the big stories that have the greatest impact with your audience. In the end the best personalities and content usually win.
Scott Masteller, PD at WBAL: Regardless of the format it’s all about the topics that you present on the air, and playing to the broadest set of the audience. Whether it’s a local station or national network, it’s important to have a perspective on what the audience wants to hear about when they decide to listen to your product. We know attention spans are so limited and if you waste time you lose quarter-hours. Understanding the interests of the audience you are playing to has never been more critical as the consumer has so many choices as to where they can go for content.
The other big difference I see is the volume of breaking news. News is the foundation of our radio station and in one day we can have multiple press events that we carry live from either Washington or in our own region. We have to be prepared for news elements at a moments notice, and then when it makes sense be able to pivot and offer the audience reaction and analysis.
Barrett:How does your approach change when it comes to the way you image and position a News/Talk brand?
Long: My team tends to look to find ways to make the station continue to sound credible and local. You want to create the sound that reflects the breath of the city & region in which you are operating. The main goal for us is to always evolve our listening environment and strengthen our position as the go to place when news events happen.
Hanson: A sports radio station has that sports bar approach to branding. It needs be fun to hang around with. A news talk station has to be trustworthy. There CAN and should be a fun approach to branding with news talk, in relationship to the talk part of the brand, but it needs to be done appropriately.
Graham: I’ve used the experience and knowledge I’ve gained over the years of managing sports radio imaging and have applied it to the News/Talk format. Being topical and in the moment as much as possible is key. In this world that’s a huge challenge with the constant churn of the news cycle. Otherwise it’s the same from the standpoint of keeping your branding simple, to the point and targeted to your core listenership. And when it comes to big events for instance like the upcoming election, it’s just like covering a Super Bowl. Tell the story to the listeners of what you’re doing and when. Planning and producing pre-election, during the election and post election imaging pieces etc..
Masteller: I actually took much of what has been part of sports and shifted it over to news when I made the transition. The words “urgency and anticipation” have always been part of the vocabulary for me when it comes to production and imaging. News changes so frequently and with that so does production. Many times we will put an element on the air and it may only run for six hours. We write new production every day as the news cycle is moving faster than ever before. There’s nothing worse to me then hearing outdated production on the air. Having a voice talent that understands the news cycle is critical to the overall sound of the station.
Barrett:In sports radio, the hits are easy to identify because they’re most often of local relevance. In News, it can be harder because global, national, and local issues all have significant value to local listeners. How do your talk shows decide which content warrants a deep dive, and which material only deserves a few minutes or a quick mention?
Long: Many stations have built their lineup with a mix of national and local talent. When this happens you can tend to lean deeper into the local/regional topics on your local shows given the national perspective is covered at other times. On a station like KOGO, we attempt to always cover what people are discussing. If a national story is making headlines, we won’t shelve it in favor of a local story that is of less interest. Like sports radio, we always try to play the hits.
Hanson: There is a lot of information out there. But only a percentage truly affects the day to day lives of our listeners. The successful shows are the ones that will talk about local issues and take information on a large scale, and explain how it matters to their audience.
Graham: I keep it simple with my staff. We have a targeted listener and I remind them constantly to ask themselves of what he wants to hear, and what interests and impacts him the most. That’s what we should be talking about. On any given day that can range from something that is directly affecting the local community, to something that is happening statewide or nationally that has an impact, directly or indirectly, on our Dallas-Fort Worth listenership. The upside of this format is there is never a crazy slow day because in the end there is always something happening that resonates with our audience.
Masteller: It is a balancing act, yet it depends on the mission of the station you are programming. WBAL NewsRadio is live and local 18 hours a day. What is happening in Baltimore and the region drives a lot of what we present. Our hosts must be knowledgeable on both local and national issues. We are in an Election year and the push to November will dominate much of the conversation. The key for us is to be able to localize the content whenever possible but always remember to play the hits. One day the biggest story may be in Baltimore and the next day it may be somewhere in the country. It’s also very important for talent to understand how consumers listen. When you have a big story the talent must understand you are presenting to different people every quarter-hour.
Barrett:President Trump is notorious for offering strong opinions on sensitive issues. Those remarks often fuel his fan base while igniting his critics. Are Trump’s controversies good or bad for News/Talk radio and ratings?
Long: It really depends on the type of station you have and how you’re positioned. When he was on the campaign trail prior to becoming president, the headlines he generated were unlike anything the media has ever seen. However, it seems people are now somewhat predisposed to the fact the he is likely to send out a tweet or make a comment on a given story so I feel like the initial shock value that was generated has worn off a bit.
Hanson: Some may disagree, but I’ve had many conversations with those I respect in the business and my own experience that both tell me, the more you stay away from getting into the daily tweets of President Trump, the better off you’ll be. When listeners complain about something that was either said for, or against him, I think it’s the first time I’ve ever believed a listener when they’ve said, they’ll change the station.
Graham: I think this varies from market to market and what your brand is. In our case with our two News/Talk brands reflecting the conservative community that is the Dallas-Fort Worth metro it definitely doesn’t hurt. Love or hate him, the President always has something to say that drives conversation. It’s much like having an outspoken star or coach in a particular sports market. It drives controversial content which in turn usually drives ratings.
Masteller: What the President says always draws reaction and what is most important is how talent react. To me one of the aspects I always talk to hosts about is ‘tone”. It’s’ not always what you say, it’s how you say it. I’ve always felt it is important to never be mean spirited in how you discuss any issue or any person. It’s more than ok to disagree, but you should do so from a foundation of fact. Everyone has an opinion about the President and what he says and that hopefully leads to more quarter-hours.
Barrett:Talk radio shows often feature a mix of strong opinions, storytelling, breaking news, features, calls/texts, guests, bits, etc.. What do News/Talk listeners value most and least from that menu of options?
Long: This is a mixed bag. It really depends on the show and the hosts. I find N/T listeners still want the engagement of calls, texts, guests etc.. By contrast, I don’t find them being all that interested in produced bits or comedy. However, it all depends on the show and the time it’s on. In the end, the audience is looking for a host to have unique opinions and perspectives.
Hanson: I’m a fan of relying on what you can control every day. So strong opinions, storytelling, features, bits…these are all elements that can be controlled daily by the professionals that were hired to do the job. Calls, texts and guests, those are putting your show in the hands of the unknowns, so I see them as valued, but less important. Or more appropriately, less reliable. The audience tunes in every day KNOWING one thing they’ll be hearing, which is the host or hosts. Breaking news is interesting, because radio isn’t great at the actual breaking of news, but we can still reap the benefits because it’s often the first place people hear the news, and/or the first place they turn to for more information or reaction to the news. So that too is important
Graham: It’s a combination of all the above. Ultimately, like the sports radio format, our ratings are driven more on time spent listening than cume. So that means it’s incumbent on the entire team–hosts, producers, news etc. to be on the same page driving the content that our target listeners crave. If it’s a slower news day, the hosts/producers have to be more creative in coming up with content that their passionate about that connects/illicits an emotion from the listeners. If it’s breaking news or huge events/stories that are happening then everyone has to pivot to report, give opinions, get listeners to respond, and own that story which includes up to the minute imaging to capitalize on it as well.
Masteller: There is no answer that fits all as there are some talk stations that have a large commitment to news as well as talk content. Other stations are more talk-focused. You may also have more than one news-talk station in a market. Having a strong commitment to the audience you serve is what makes the difference. WBAL is based on a foundation of news with an intersection of personality driven content hosted by talent that have a pulse for the local community that they serve. The biggest thing for listeners is to not waste their time. The best talent are the ones that deliver payoffs to the consumer for every quarter-hour so they feel like their investment of time in listening is a good one. Personalities that develop a relationship with the audience and are not necessarily depending upon external events are very valuable because they become the main reason to listen on a consistent basis.
Barrett: If there’s one thing that concerns you about the future of the N/T format and keeps you up at night, what would it be?
Long: The format lacks enough gender and race diversity. In terms of conservative radio, the big change on the horizon is what happens when Rush Limbaugh decides he’s no longer going to do his show. This pending retirement is going to take out a huge tent pole that has been a mainstay for years on many stations. In addition, I don’t think the format is doing enough to focus on attracting a younger audience.
Hanson: The format needing to be more inclusive of all perspectives.
Graham: As a programmer of two news/talkers that are on the AM dial obviously the continued aging of the format is an ongoing issue. We’ve put a lot of emphasis and time in our building into our digital brands and distribution points for content and streaming whether that’s our app, smart speakers or something else. Unfortunately we haven’t seen the benefits from Nielsen just our own data, which is actual accurate listenership, and has shown that we have continued to build and post all time levels of consumption. Which then leads me to the other thing keeping me up at night…Nielsen but then again that applies to all PD’s regardless of format!
Masteller: Finding new and different voices that are the talk-stars of the future. Giving them the teaching, coaching and feedback that will help them grow to the next level and be able to succeed as an on-air host.
Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Media. Prior to launching BM, he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.
As of today, we are exactly 105 days away from stepping foot inside of the Student Life Center at Vanderbilt University for the 2023 BNM Summit. To those who have already purchased a ticket, THANK YOU! If you haven’t bought yours yet and plan to attend, make sure to visit BNMSummit.com to secure your seat. It’s going to be a great two-day event.
Building this conference is both stressful and exciting. It only works if the format supports it. My goal when running a Summit is to deliver the equivalent of a two-day masterclass for those in the attendance. We’ll build sessions around programming, brand building, hosting, social media, podcasting/video, audience behavior, sales/advertising, and other items that warrant deeper inspection. The overall objective is simple; send attendees home with actionable information and ideas to further grow their brands/businesses, connect people to open doors to future relationships and/or business, and celebrate the format’s success with those who’ve played a role in creating it.
Though there’s much more to finalize and announce, I’m eager to present an action packed agenda for news/talk media professionals in Nashville, TN. Making this even more exciting is that we’ll have some faces in attendance who don’t often get out for industry events. That’s a big part of what makes this both fun, insightful, invigorating, and necessary to attend.
But rather than listen to me ramble on, let’s pass along a few details about the latest four additions to the 2023 BNM Summit lineup.
First, it’s an honor to welcome Salem Media Group’s Senior Vice President of Programming for Spoken Word formats, Phil Boyce to the 2023 BNM Summit. Anyone who has paid attention to the news/talk format is well aware of Phil’s influence and impact on it. He currently oversees the Salem Radio Network which features established voices such as Mike Gallagher, Hugh Hewitt, Dennis Prager, Sebastian Gorka, and Charlie Kirk among others. Prior to joining Salem in 2012, Boyce spent 14 years as the Program Director of WABC in New York, and is widely credited with hiring Sean Hannity in New York and taking his show into national syndication for ABC in 2001. He also hired Mark Levin at WABC and took him into national syndication in 2006. If that wasn’t enough, he also spent time earlier in his career programming WJR in Detroit, hiring Paul W. Smith and Mitch Albom.
Next, I’m excited to welcome Drew Anderssen to the 2023 BNM Summit. Drew is based in Dallas and charged with leading 1080 KRLD and the Texas State Networks for Audacy. Prior to heading to the Lone Star State in April 2022, Anderssen led WSB in Atlanta to #1 in the ratings. His impressive career also includes stints as Program Director and Operations Manager for News 96.5 FM WDBO and ESPN 580 in Orlando, and Operations Manager of news/talk KRMG in Tulsa.
Batting third in today’s announcement order is the man tasked with guiding one of the Midwest’s crown jewels of the News/Talk format. Steve Moore serves as the Program Director of KMOX and 97.1 FM Talk and the Operations Manager for Audacy St. Louis. He has spent twenty three years overseeing KMOX, and served as VP/Talk for CBS Radio from 2005 until 2017. Steve’s career also includes PD stints with KTRS, KFNS, and KSD-AM in St. Louis.
We wrap up today’s announcement with an addition to the show who readers of this site may be familiar with. You may have learned about Pete Mundo by reading his columns on BNM but to listeners in Kansas City, Mundo needs no introduction. Pete is responsible for programming KCMO in KC and serving as the station’s morning host. Before moving to the Midwest, he spent time in New York City working for Fox News Radio, CBS Sports Radio, WFAN, and Sports Illustrated’s SI Now. He’s also the founder and owner of HeartlandCollegeSports.com, a Big 12-focused digital media outlet.
It goes without saying that I am excited to have these four accomplished professionals join our speaker lineup. They bring decades of experience and insight to the room, which I’m certain will help many in attendance. I look forward to seeing them in Nashville, and hope to see you there too! For details on tickets, speakers, hotel rooms, etc. visit BNMSummit.com.
Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Media. Prior to launching BM, he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.
Craig Schwalb, Larry Rosin, Mike McVay, McGraw Milhaven & Greg Moceri Join the BNM Summit Lineup
“Each of these gentlemen possess a wealth of knowledge and experience, and we look forward to having them share their insights this September in Nashville.”
Last week, I announced our first 7 speakers for our first BNM Summit. This is our two-day news media conference, designed to bring together news/talk radio, television, print and advertising professionals to explore ways to move the industry forward. Our full agenda will be released closer to the event but attendees can expect a mixture of speakers and conversations centered around issues pertaining to programming, sales, content creation, social media, video strategy, audience behavior, and more.
The dates of the Summit are Wednesday and Thursday September 13-14, 2023. The event takes place in Nashville, TN at Vanderbilt University. Tickets are on-sale now and discounted for the entire month of May to $174.99. They’ll increase on June 1st to $224.99.
We continue to talk to potential speakers about the conference in order to create the best show possible for industry professionals. Those interested in consideration can send an email to Jason@BarrettNewsMedia.com. Companies looking to sponsor the event can gain more information by emailing Stephanie Eads at Sales@BarrettSportsMedia.com.
Today, I’m thrilled to reveal our next batch of speakers who will join us in Nashville in September. BNM looks forward to welcoming WBBM Brand Manager Craig Schwalb, KTRS Program Director and Morning Host McGraw Milhaven, Edison Research Co-Founder and President Larry Rosin, and accomplished radio consultants Mike McVay and Greg Moceri.
Each of these gentlemen possess a wealth of knowledge and experience. We look forward to having them share their insights with our attendees this September in Nashville.
With these recent additions, our speaker total is now up to 12. By the time we reach September, I expect to have more than 40-50 accomplished broadcasters offering tips, insights, and opinions to help folks in attendance.
One thing I want to add. The goal of this event is to help brands and broadcasters increase relationships, celebrate those who’ve made an impact, and most importantly, gain valuable insight to move their businesses forward. We cover a lot of ground in the room over the course of two days. This is not a political gathering nor is it designed to favor one side over another. I want as many successful people and outlets represented in Nashville as possible because the more we learn from other’s who’ve enjoyed success, the better we all become.
I’m hoping to have our next announcement ready right after Memorial Day. If you’re planning to attend and have a session idea you’d like to propose, please feel free to send an email. I appreciate your support, and look forward to spending two-days with you in Nashville in September.
Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Media. Prior to launching BM, he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.
Running a digital media company is hard. You read our articles, and see the names and faces attached to each story, but not the time invested in listening, reading, watching, researching, texting, calling, and emailing to deliver the daily content that we do. Every day I wake up energized to cover and consult the news and sports media business, but there are many times when I’ve asked myself ‘would we be fine if everything was cut in half?’
For nearly 8 years we have served the spoken word side of this industry unlike any other brand. I know that what we do matters to folks inside the business. I appreciate that, and don’t take it for granted. No other online outlet has twenty three contributors involved in daily coverage of sports and news/talk radio, TV, digital, research, and advertising, delivering two annual events, two daily newsletters, and providing consulting support to industry brands. The good news is that every year since starting this company, we’ve grown. I thought for sure that wouldn’t be the case in 2020 when the pandemic hit, but whether through luck, skill or an act of god, we survived, and thrived.
But though we continue to grow, changing industry marketing habits isn’t easy. I try to focus on doing good, quality work with high caliber people, making connections for partners, and producing results that demonstrate our value to the industry. I believe that if we do the right things consistently, doors eventually open. Once they do, I’m convinced they’ll become long-term relationships. Those are the type of partnerships I look for. We’re not chasing one and done deals.
As a business owner I constantly evaluate and analyze what is and isn’t working. I look at how much content we create, who we’re writing about, who reads our work, which of our writers is and isn’t connecting with the audience, how far our reach extends across the industry, if our traffic is up or down, if our advertising-consulting-membership-newsletters-conference businesses are growing, and how much we push and promote across all social media platforms through both organic and paid media. I then compare that to other outlets producing industry content to make sure we’re on the right path.
I also have to examine new opportunities, and if they are a worthwhile investment. There’s no bigger example of that then this past November when after months of discussion, we decided to give BNM its own platform.
When I made that call, I knew it’d take time for people to find the site, follow our social media accounts, sign up for the newsletters, etc.. We’re not even a full six months into that plan yet, and though there’s plenty of room for improvement, we’re making strides. I recently changed Demetri Ravanos and Garrett Searight’s roles, having Garrett specifically focus on BNM and Demetri prioritize BSM. They had worn two hats previously, and a split focus is hard to get the best results with. I also promoted Derek Futterman to BSM Contributing Editor to help with our daily stories, and begin adding creative features and on-site support at industry events. I’m hoping that having a laser-like focus on both brands will make us better. Down the line, I may add another FT editor to help us continue to grow.
But what most people notice on our websites is the content we create, and who writes it. We’ve built a good team over the past few months, but are always looking to get better. I don’t care if someone is old, young, black, white, gay, straight, conservative or liberal. If they have industry experience, love what we do, and can write and help us, they’re worth talking to. It helps that we concentrate on covering news media, not news. Writers can think whatever they want about politics and issues facing the world, but when it comes to posting content here, only one thing matters, how does it relate to the media business?
That’s one key item I value on BSM and BNM. Others are making sure we are fair, accurate, respectful, using good grammar, avoiding personal shots, and making sure the brand and my personal reputation are not damaged. I don’t believe those are unfair expectations. You can disagree with a brand’s decision, question a company’s strategy, interview people, share your opinion on a talent or executive’s handling of an issue, and 99.9% of the time I’ll support it. If you leave your politics at the door, it’s a fun, easy job. If those standards get violated, tough calls have to be made.
As pleased as I am with our current crop of contributors, I’m interested in growing. It’s why I launched the BNM Top 20 last December, and am hosting our first BNM Summit in Nashville this September. So today, I’d like to share some more positive news that I hope will make our readers happy, and bring a few more industry eyeballs to the BNM website in the near future.
Starting the week of May 15th, BNM is adding a few new columnists and a new features reporter to its stable. I am excited to welcome Brian Shactman (WTIC morning host in Hartford, CT), Peter Wilkinson Thiele (NewsTalk KZRG PD and Morning Host), Dr. Ed Cohen (Former VP of Ratings & Research at Cumulus & Former VP of Measurement Innovation at Nielsen/Arbitron), and Jessie Karangu (weekly columnist for BSM) as columnists, and Veronica Dudo (Former CBS & NBC News Journalist) as our new features reporter.
All five of these folks have great knowledge, and experience inside the industry. I’m eager to have them share their insights, opinions, and stories with you to help provide an even better content experience on BarrettNewsMedia.com.
While I am looking forward to having them create content for us, I do have to share that Jim Cryns is no longer with BNM. Jim did a great job for us in 2022, and the first few months of 2023, and I wish him all the best with his future pursuits.
I’ll have another column later this week with additional speaker announcements for the 2023 BNM Summit in Nashville. Please mark those dates down on your calendar now, Wednesday and Thursday September 13-14, 2023. Tickets have been reduced for the month of May to just $174.99. I hope you’re able to join us for the show, but in the meantime, please be sure to give a nice, warm welcome to our new contributors when they get started next week.
Jason Barrett is the owner and operator of Barrett Media. Prior to launching BM, he served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He has also produced national shows for ESPN Radio including GameNight and the Dan Patrick Show. You can find him on Twitter @SportsRadioPD or reach him by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.