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Mark Simone Learned Talk Radio From The Industry’s Greatest Voices

“The worst thing for us is not to have a competitor. That’s what gets you lazy. With them (WABC) doing stuff it makes us have to do better.”

Jerry Barmash

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Mark Simone has been a popular presence on radio and numerous television appearances for decades. Since 2013, he’s been the midday host at WOR. Simone is also Sean Hannity’s main fill in on his Premiere Networks syndicated show, an estimated 200 times as host through the years. He was the top back-up for Don Imus, with as many as up ten weeks per year.

The year was 1977 when it all began for him in New York City on the now-defunct WPIX-FM, putting him on the precipice of 45 years. Milestones escape him as he is too busy to focus on the past.

“Oh yeah, could be,” Simone told BNM. “You’re right. I just never think of that stuff.”

He’s been taking on conversative politics for years, but that only scratches the surface for this versatile broadcasting giant.

Whether doing a music show, comedy, (yes, comedy), or talk, Simone’s common theme is entertaining the audience.

While at WPIX-FM, Simone would spin the cutting-edge music of Blondie and The Police. But his gift of gab would shine almost immediately as host of “The Simone Phone” that he credits as the first FM talk show.

The Sunday morning show was a ratings winner where music was mixed with bits including “Dial-A-Date,” a segment that would be copied by stations thereafter.

With Simone quickly gaining a following, in 1980 he jumped ship to WMCA, the top talk station of the era. He joined a “Murderer’s Row” of radio hosts with Bob Grant, Barry Gray, Barry Farber and Sally Jessy Raphael, before starting her syndicated show. WMCA also had Larry King, one of the top network shows of the time.

“They were looking for somebody really young,” Simone said. “Just like today, they wanted new, younger talk.  So, they put me on there with that lineup and that’s where I first did talk radio for a couple of years.”

His days of music were not over. When he landed at WNEW-AM in the early 1980s, Simone was doing a hybrid show of music and talk. WNEW 1130 was the Big Band station in New York.

Comedy Today

Another legendary celebrity, Steve Allen, would co-host an afternoon show with Simone. It was a three-hour comedy show where some of the biggest names and those on the cusp of greatest would participate in the “open mic.”

The show was initially only heard on WNEW before getting picked up nationally on the NBC Radio Network in 1987.

Bill Maher and Jay Leno were among the regulars. Each day the show featured the talents of famed TV writers Herb Sergant and Larry Gelbart.

“That was the greatest radio show I ever heard,” Simone said.

Simone and Allen would hold a roundtable of sorts with the comics, discussing the latest news.

“It was the greatest graduate school ever in comedy,” Simone said.

Once that show ended, it was seamless for Simone to hold down the afternoon slot solo, “but we continued the flavor of that show,” as comedians still were a major part.

For example, there was Jerry Seinfeld chatting with Simone each week as his eponymous sitcom would struggle to find viewers.

“He didn’t think [Seinfeld] would make it. He was worried it would get canceled for the first couple of years,” Simone recalled.

Another NBC star, Jay Leno would frequently appear to test out a monologue before delivering it to millions on The Tonight Show.

Proud of that time at WNEW, Simone also had a budding comic segment called Punchline, where future headliners Jon Stewart, Ellen DeGeneres and Rosie O’Donnell were introduced.

As the show had so many big-name guests, it was decided Simone (and company) would host in front of a live audience.

“We did it from Mickey Mantle’s restaurant on 59th Street with about 150 people every day in the audience.” Simone said. “It was great.”

Ol’ Blue Eyes

“Frank Sinatra used to listen every day. It was that kind of audience,” Simone said of his daily WNEW show that would eventually lead to a friendship with the iconic singer.  

“He’d wake up about 2:15, 2:30 every day, have breakfast listening to me like at 3 in the afternoon,” Simone said. “So, whenever I’d see him, he said, ‘I’m listening to you,’ which is the worst thing in the world because it made me more nervous.” 

He would also do a Sinatra show for many years on WNEW. After the Chairman of the Board died Simone resurrected the program Saturday nights when he was employed at 77 WABC Radio.

“It was good that I did that because everybody from Sinatra-world was still alive [2000-2002] and we had them on the show, all the great singers and all the people that had worked with him,” he said. 

WABC went back to the future with WNYM 970 morning host Joe Piscopo helming a Sunday night Sinatra and Cousin Brucie oldies show, which Simone also hosted at WABC.

“That was one of John’s ideas to bring both those back. Obviously, I couldn’t do them,” Simone said. “[Piscopo] is the perfect guy to do that right now.”

Despite the Saturday Night Live alum doing his weekly specialty show, Simone doesn’t think a larger role at WABC is in the cards.

“Bernie and Sid are a very successful show. You can’t trade that for a guy that hasn’t proven himself in the market,” he said. 

In the bigger picture, Piscopo’s WNYM is barely a rival to WOR. In fact, the Salem Media Group station performs so poorly in the ratings that Simone said they stopped subscribing.

Red Apple, No Red Herring

He spent more than a decade on WABC before moving down the dial to another legacy station. WOR will celebrate its 100th anniversary in 2022. Throughout the 2010s, WABC was in the hands of Cumulus Media until billionaire supermarket mogul John Catsimatidis purchased the station under his newly formed Red Apple Media.

“Before [Catsimatidis] got there, the place was a mess under Cumulus,” Simone said. “It was just sinking and sinking.”

Simone considers Catsimatidis one of his closest friends, gathering for dinner three times most weeks and the topic of hiring him “came up a lot,” but Simone admitted the timing didn’t work as he already re-signed a multi-year contract with WOR by the time Catsimatidis took over at WABC.

“But, you never know,” Simone said. “I really like iHeart, though, but obviously working for John would be great too.”

Agree or disagree, the radio station has made major changes to the lineup since Catsimatidis started signing the checks in 2020. Even though there are managers and executives, namely Chad Lopez (President, Red Apple Media) and Dave LaBrozzi (Program Director), Catsimatidis is completely in control of his radio station.

“It’s all John,” Simone said.

Catsimatidis, who doesn’t bring a media corporate mentality can “take some chances that nobody else will take with it. There’s no cheapness. Whatever It takes to make the best product, he’ll spend it,” Simone said.

However, part of the praising is selfish in nature.

“The worst thing for us is not to have a competitor. That’s what gets you lazy,” he said. “With them doing stuff it just makes us have to do better.”

Having said that, Simone’s iHeart bosses are “pretty generous,” and he believes “the four highest guys in radio” are in the iHeart’s New York City studios.

Plus, iHeart is entrenched as the top media conglomerate in the country. From on-air talent to management, they are a well-oiled machine.

“It’s another level with Tom Cuddy, top program director around [and] Thea Mitchem is like a programming genius who runs the whole cluster,” he said.

In 2022, WABC will mark 40 years as a Talk format, but Simone said that those legendary call letters mean nothing as the current line-up needs time to gel.

“WABC will get there, but it’s too early to compare,” he said.

WOR has seen a drop-off in recent Nielsen rating books, after a 2.5 in back-to back months to start 2021, has slipped to 1.8 for May, while WABC, although lower, has been more consistent from 1.9 to 1.7.

Personally, Simone, as stated on his website, has over 18 million listeners monthly.

Simone claims the slippage is across the board in talk radio as COVID-19 is winding down. Speaking of the pandemic, Simone and his WOR hosts have been broadcasting remotely since it began last year. It was at the time their numbers “went through the roof.” They came close to number one and were tops on Long Island among all 67 stations on AM and FM.  

They won’t return to the studio until at least the fall, he said.

Change at the White House is causing a more chronic condition for radio and TV hosts without the daily exploits of Donald Trump to explore.

“That hurt everybody. That hurt us. That hurt Steven Colbert,” Simone said. “Trump was an incredible source of material every day. People would listen the whole two hours to my show. You could just talk about Trump forever—whether you loved him or hated him—it was riveting for people.”

By contrast, President Joe Biden is the “most neutral, bland; there’s nothing to talk about, no one wants to hear about it.”

Perfect for those situations, from his earliest days in radio, Simone has not relied exclusively on the political chat.

“I was always careful to make sure the show was about everything,” he said.

Weeks after Trump left office, Rush Limbaugh left an insurmountable void on the radio landscape.

Buck Sexton and Clay Travis launched on Premiere Networks in Limbaugh’s midday slot on June 21.

“You just have to wait and see. When [Joe] DiMaggio retired, that’s it. You’ll never see that again, and some kid replaced him. The kid later turned out to be Mickey Mantle, so anything can happen,” Simone said.

Best of Limbaugh portions were featured for months in the transition until the new hosts were named.

“The clips they played; it was the [wisest] things Rush ever said. So you wanted to hear all of that just to get it on the record.”

Moments after this interview, Simone was slated to appear with Greg Kelly for his regular Newsmax appearance.

Over the years, Simone has also been a contributor to Fox News and Fox Business shows.

That ability to move effortlessly from topic to topic helped him growth with his radio audience.

“That’s the way I do my show now. We’ll be talking about the latest bill in the Senate. The next thing you know we’re talking about the iPhone and the best restaurant,” Simone said. “It’s just a little bit of everything.”

Throughout his broadcasting career, Simone has built relationships and, even more important, learned from his influences that include Ted Brown, William B. Williams and Dan Ingram. Even Johnny Carson would the most important piece of advice, always talk to middle America. 

“I worked with the absolute best ever—the greatest voices on the radio—if you need an education,” Simone said. “I had the best teachers you could have.”

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The Only Path Forward For News Radio is Strong Personalities

Radio’s competitive advantage remains its people. And when it comes to personality, no format owns that right now more so than News/Talk

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Radio

If radio wants to keep up, personality has to be the way. The format of choice is irrelevant, but personality has to be the biggest asset for the format and station.

It’s something I’ve written about before in this column, but when it gets reinforced by iHeart CEO Bob Pittman, it’s worth mentioning again.

In a great conversation with Talkers’ Michael Harrison, Pittman pointed out that “25% of iHeart’s stations do not play music”, and that more and more shows on the company’s music stations are “actually talk shows that play little or no music at all.”

Then came the best line of the conversation, when Pittman said, “Even on our music stations, you find us moving much more towards heavier personalities, because as we begin to say, If somebody just wanted music, they’ve got a lot of places to go. We’re probably not their best option, if they just want to dig through music. If they want somebody to keep them company, and hang out with them, and be their friend, and be an informed friend, and connect with them, there’s no better place. So we’re very committed to it.”

That’s it right there. 

Radio’s competitive advantage is being a friend (ideally local), while using personality-driven content to develop that relationship with the listener to then drive listening occasions. 

As has been discussed and addressed for years, music radio simply can’t compete with Spotify, Amazon Music, etc. if your goal is to listen to your music at the exact time that you want it.

Radio’s competitive advantage remains its people. And when it comes to personality, no format owns that right now more so than news/talk, where the strongest opinions and deepest connections often exist. That’s backed up by the Time Spent Listening for the format, which leads the way in many markets.

In many ways, news/talk is the best — and most exciting — place to be right now in the business, and none of that has to do with what is shaping up to be a fascinating 2024 election cycle. But rather because the industry’s biggest advantage to maintaining and growing its audience is its personalities, so if you’re already in the talk format, you’re ahead of the game. And then if you’re good, you’re a highly valuable asset. 

As Pittman also noted in his conversation with Harrison, “For the first time ever, the radio business is bigger than the TV business, in terms of audience from 18 to 49 [year olds].”

National coastal media won’t write about that, because too many of them aren’t everyday American consumers. However, the data doesn’t lie. Radio is beating TV in a key demo and the leaders in the industry know that personality-driven content is their key to future success. That’s a great combination for those of us working in the business.

Granted, as we all know, it’s not all roses and sunshine. These are still tough times with continuing competition in the ad space and a soft 2023 shaping up. 

However, the show must go on. 

And as radio strategically prepares itself for not just the rest of this year, but the next five to ten years, there are plenty of goals that need to be achieved, but if growing and developing personalities is at the top of the list, that’s a win for the industry and an even bigger win for the news/talk format.

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If CNN is For Sale, Here Are 5 Potential Buyers

CNN can’t survive as a “both sides” network, as a Fox News lite, or as a leftist network. It needs to be the network that upholds the truth. These companies would align with that method of thinking.

Jessie Karangu

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(Photo: Getty Images)

It’s hard to run a cable news network like CNN these days. Just look at NewsNation. It was founded on the principle of being the first centrist cable news network to come into existence in years. But over the past couple of months, the network has peddled by coming from a slightly right-of-center angle with headlines. They’ve tried to steal left-of-center viewers from CNN with the hiring of Chris Cuomo. And now they’re literally going wall-to-wall with coverage of UFOs. I’m not even making that up.

In a world where a big chunk of its denizens believes the truth is a maybe while the other half doesn’t pay attention to the news unless it is bite-sized, does it still make sense to own a cable news network? Given the turmoil Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zazlav has faced lately with CNN it may not be for him. 

The company was forced to let go of CNN CEO Chris Licht this week after a scathing profile from The Atlantic that went behind the scenes into how Licht operated the network post-Jeff Zucker. It was a circus, to say the least. After reading the profile though, you still come away feeling bad for Licht while considering the fact that there is a hand that might have been puppeteering him along the way that was used to having control over everyone.

Zazlav comes from a part of cable where it is necessary to operate like a dictatorship because the formula has proven to work with Discovery Channel, HGTV, Food Network, etc…and because the shows that air on these networks create their own warped reality to spit out for thirsty reality consumers who want it the way it is served.

It’s impossible to have this kind of culture in cable news where the personalities aren’t really the star of the network — the news and facts are and they can’t be warped to fit all interested parties. They just have to be true whether it benefits one side or the other. The truth is the truth. 

There are new ways to tell stories and there’s new technology you can use to tell those stories but at the end of the day, telling stories also has the same formula as it always has and can’t be changed.

Remarkably, Don Lemon comes away from Licht’s profile looking the most intelligent when he says that many critics of CNN like Zazlav are committed to Monday morning quarterbacking. CNN went a little too hard on various things happening in the Trump administration too many times, but at the end of the day, it was the job of journalists to hold politicians accountable to the truth just like it has been since the founding of television news. 

This lack of realization on Zazlav’s part shows that CNN probably doesn’t belong in the same company as Warner Bros. Discovery. The cultures of Discovery and CNN clearly don’t align. Axios has already reported that because of the low ad market, cord-cutting, slumping ratings, and the run-up to the election having not started yet, WBD doesn’t plan on selling CNN any time soon. It also should be noted that CNN still makes almost $800 million a year for WBD so it is not the big loss of an asset that many in the media would make you think it is. 

At the same time, unless Zazlav decides to change his mindset, he needs to sell before this situation becomes unmanageable. CNN can’t survive as a “both sides” network, as a Fox News lite, or as a leftist network. It needs to be the network that upholds democracy and the truth. These companies would align with that method of thinking.

Disney

The Mickey Mouse Club owns the news organization that already has the most trust among conservatives on television besides Fox News (ABC News), so they would help legitimize CNN’s mission of garnering more conservatives.

CNN’s library of content would bolster its digital platforms and provide an avenue to create new documentaries and films. ABC News’ own extracurricular projects would be on a platform that has consistent reach with the audience they’re seeking and wouldn’t get lost in the clouds like it currently does on Hulu.

National Geographic could move its content to CNN and HLN and help Disney get rid of one less cable network (NatGeo Channel) that doesn’t generate revenue.

NBC

CNN already has the largest news organization in the world. Their addition would bring NBC over the top. NBC’s ability to promote news offerings on Peacock would get some much-needed help as well since CNN has the number one digital news website in the United States.

Peacock would also be able to add CNN’s library to its app giving viewers who crave live news and sports another reason to subscribe to the app.

Regulatory issues may prevail due to past rulings by the federal government but this may have a chance to go through if the government believes the internet and streaming and the fragmentation of television has created enough competition for a CNN/MSNBC combo to not be too powerful.

The Emerson Collective

In a stroke of sheer awkwardness, could the owners of The Atlantic be contenders? Laurene Powell Jobs has constantly spoken about how much she believes journalism affects the balance of our society.

CNN, despite its ratings drag, still plays a vital role in shaping what we talk about as a society. Jobs’ causes like social justice reform, immigration reform, and the environment might get more attention from the general populous on a platform like CNN

The Washington Post or New York Times

Both entities were hand-in-hand with CNN reporting on the latest developments involving the Trump administration and both also faced public backlash about what they deemed as important with a Trump admin vs. a regular administration.

They all share the same mission and journalism ethos and, in the case of WaPo, have a very wealthy backer who could fund a potential deal.

Byron Allen

The media mogul has become more deeply involved with the industry than he ever was before. He has a stake in the sports RSNs that are currently failing, he owns The Weather Channel — the most trusted name in news right now which is a remarkable feat to achieve in an era where so many deny climate change and he’s in the market to buy more.

CNN being black-owned could quell the accusations of the network becoming white-washed. A partnership with The Weather Channel bolsters coverage of climate change for the cable network.

And for Byron Allen, CNN gives him a seat on the table when it comes to power and influence in the worlds of Wall Street and Congress.

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What Chris Licht Got Right, and Wrong, During His CNN Tenure

Chris Licht faced an impossible mission of improving ratings without Donald Trump and with a staff he alienated.

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MIKE COPPOLA/GETTY IMAGES

The departure of Chris Licht from CNN was abrupt but expected after a string of missteps. His criticism of his predecessor Jeff Zucker spilled into criticisms of the network’s coverage of Donald Trump and the Covid pandemic, which undercut his staff. Journalists who stood up to conspiracy theories and election falsehoods from the very top felt betrayed.

I’ve known Chris for 30 years, when he served as an associate producer at a KNBC/CNBC for a daily half-hour program centered on the O.J. Simpson trial. Later, we were colleagues at NBC and kept in touch while he was at CBS and I was at ABC. He is whip-smart, congenial, worked well with big talents like Joe Scarborough, Charlie Rose, and Gayle King, and, until now, had a stellar track record.

And in his latest and biggest post — despite being put in an impossible position — did some things right, which I will highlight in a moment.

But first that impossible position. His new bosses at Warner Bros. Discovery wanted a restructuring and high ratings. They insisted on less calling out of misinformation and more “both sidesism”. So Licht had to derail the CNN train and then try to lift it back on the ratings track. No small job. Especially in a news climate that is in decline.

All the cable networks — who depended upon Donald Trump’s unpredictable, often treasonous and dangerous style — have suffered ratings decline. Fox numbers are down and so is MSNBC. The viewing public no longer has to tune in every minute of the day to see what the President is going to do or say. Life has largely returned to normal for most people.

So CNN, which could once depend upon airing and then fact-checking Trump’s latest absurdity, had to find new content.

Licht’s decision to emphasize down-the-middle news gathering seemed like a solid response to life without a bombastic — some say irrational — President.

Just cover the news, at which CNN is great. It’s the first place to turn during a mass shooting, a war, or natural disaster. But those are inconsistent events and cannot be depended upon for steady ratings. That’s the environment Licht stepped into.

He reacted with some good moves. His midday CNN News Central program, 3 hours of straight news, positions itself well to cover breaking news. It’s followed by Jake Tapper and Wolf Blitzer, also emphasizing news coverage.

However, unfortunately, the list of mistakes is a lot longer. Starting with Don Lemon. His “whole thing” in primetime was to be provocative and with a strong progressive bent. Licht attempted to turn Lemon into what he is not, an easy-to-watch, not opinionated host in the morning. A broadcast that was supposed to keynote the Licht agenda blew up in months. Lemon had an opinion on everything and could not get along with his co-hosts, which in morning TV is critical. The all-important chemistry was not there.

His meeting with Republican politicians on Capitol Hill to invite them back to CNN sent a message that they would no longer be challenged for disinformation. And Licht balanced the commentary panels on CNN with GOP election deniers who shouted over questions they could not answer, in turn sticking to talking points. A move that did little to attract viewers from Fox, and instead drove away legacy CNN viewers accustomed to progressive analysis and Republicans who respected opposite opinions.

Next, his attempt to normalize Donald Trump with a CNN Town Hall, somehow expecting the old rules of decorum would work became a disaster. Trump has to be covered. 30% of the electorate supports him, as do nearly 50% of Republicans. But a live Trump supporter audience overwhelmed Kaitlan Collins who was drenched by a firehouse of lies and deception.

And finally, there was Licht’s decision to make his criticisms of staff and their former coverage public in The Atlantic. A profile that made his gym trainer appear to be his top adviser.

To sum up: Chris Licht faced an impossible mission of improving ratings without Donald Trump and with a staff he alienated.

It was an opportunity wasted and a good man self-defeated.

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