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Tom Sullivan Didn’t Account For Radio Career

“When I was 16, I became interested in a girl named Cindy, whose father was a CPA,” Sullivan explained. “I didn’t even know what a CPA was. But I liked Cindy and would visit her at her parent’s house.”

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I don’t know what Willy Wonka was like as a kid, but it’s a pretty good guess he knew his future would have something to do with candy. Ironically, esteemed radio talker Tom Sullivan had no intention of going into the media. Accounting was his passion, but chocolate was always a big part of his life.

“When my dad got home from work I’d hug him,” Sullivan said. “He must have thought I loved him but I was really trying to get a whiff of the chocolate. My dad was a chocolate maker in Seattle. He belonged to the bakers and confectioners union. He never allowed any candy in the house because he was so sick of it, working around chocolate all day long. He just didn’t want to see it.”

That gives special meaning to the Father’s Day Card: World’s Sweetest Father.

“When I saw people working so hard when I was a kid, I thought, ‘I’ll tell you what, I’m going to get a good education so I don’t have to punch the clock.’ The funny thing is, all you do in radio is punch the clock. We sit in a padded room for three hours talking. Now that’s crazy.”

While you may be well aware of Sullivan’s career moves, you might not know his initial chosen profession of accounting stemmed from him fancying a particular young lady.

“When I was 16, I became interested in a girl named Cindy, whose father was a CPA,” Sullivan explained. “I didn’t even know what a CPA was. But I liked Cindy and would visit her at her parent’s house. Her father asked me if I’d like to come down to his office, and he’d show me what bookkeeping was all about. He taught me basic accounting, basic bookkeeping, and I loved it. I took an optional course in business accounting when I got to college, and I couldn’t
believe how much I enjoyed it.”

That’s when Sullivan realized accounting was for him. His undergraduate degree is in accounting. He also enrolled in a bunch of advanced math classes and early computer programming. That’s when computers were the size of RVs.

The war was raging in Vietnam and Sullivan went into the Army, through ROTC. He immediately got hurt during basic training in an explosion.

“They wrapped me up and sent me back to Seattle. That was it for the Army.”

Sullivan had paid his debt to Uncle Sam.

In college, Sullivan said there was an ambulance station across from the university. It was like working at a fire station. He had overnight shifts there as a driver. Living there, he’d fix meals, work overnight and then go to school in the morning. A great way to pay for college.

“They had a business office with typewriters, copy machines. I could do my homework there.”

During his time as an ambulance driver, he met a lot of police officers. They told Sullivan the police department was hiring patrol officers, and they’d pay for graduate school in exchange for work.

It sounded good. Later, Sullivan learned it came at a price.

“I saw a lot of things by the end of graduate school,” Sullivan said. “I saw my share of drunk drivers. I also saw so much death and destruction as an ambulance driver and a highway patrolman. It was not conducive to your mental health.”

How can someone not be affected after seeing that kind of stuff? Sullivan said he has thought about the possibility of his having PTSD, but ruled it out.

“I know it’s a very real thing. I think if I’d been in battle, I would have been greatly affected. I don’t think I have PTSD. I have a personality that deals well with bad things. Even with all the gore and destruction I witnessed, I think I learned to compartmentalize those experiences.”

Sullivan said it’s a total mystery how his career has unfolded.

“I was the first in my family to go to college, so I was a trailblazer in that regard. I had no mentors. No examples. Cindy’s dad was the closest thing to a mentor.”

After graduation, Price Waterhouse came calling. They liked Sullivan so much they said he could work at an office of his choosing, anywhere.

“I’m a West Coast kid and I didn’t know diddly about the East Coast. I knew New York and San Francisco were the two financial cities. I always wanted to live in San Francisco so I moved there in 1971.”

He worked for Price Waterhouse from 1972 through 1977. While at Price Waterhouse, Sullivan acted as a tax consultant for major corporations. One of his clients was a physician who wanted to start a mortgage business. They built the business together and then sold. A lot of Sullivan’s old tax clients asked him to help with investments, and it all took off.

“CPAs were prevented from working with investments,” Sullivan said. “I opened a boutique investment firm in 1980. I thought, how do I get some advertising for this? I checked into the ad costs on the number one radio station in Sacramento. I asked them how much it cost to advertise on the station?”

This is how accounting morphed into Sullivan’s career in the radio business.

“When they told me how much it cost to advertise I thought, “Holy smokes,’ that’s a lot of money. I told them I listened to their station in the morning and I called the PD and suggested I do some financial news on the station in exchange for the advertising.”

The GM called him back and told Sullivan he couldn’t help him with that, but he knew another radio station that might. Sullivan called that station and they asked if he could come on the air and offer some tax tips listeners could utilize before the end of the year.

“When that was finished the business reporter was leaving and they asked if I’d be interested in taking his slot.”

Sullivan started doing the radio gig, and it wasn’t long before the local NBC affiliate heard him and asked if he could do the same for them.

“I did that for the NBC station, KCRA for 25 years until I left for New York.”

Sullivan started with iHeart in 1980 and has been with the company for 42 years.

He knew Rush Limbaugh from the talkers’ early days in Kansas City at KMBZ. Limbaugh did local talk from 1980-88 before moving on to New York. Limbaugh and Sullivan became very dear friends.

“He was the best man at my wedding and we were close until the day he passed.”

As Limbaugh worked in New York, he called Sullivan and said he might be able to get him a job. At this point, Limbaugh was doing two hours on WABC, and he also had a two-hour syndicated show.

“They had a one-hour hole in the schedule and asked me if I could go on and talk about money. I told them I couldn’t talk about money all the time as I’d get bored. Then we discussed topics from the newspaper as well, so I did and filled the gap in the schedule.”

After seeing Sullivan’s numbers in the one-hour slot, they gave the afternoon host the boot and put him in her slot. Now he had three hours in the afternoon on WABC. That went from 1988 through 2007.

“We sit in a padded room by ourselves and talk for three hours.”

Compared to 99.8% of accountants in the world, Sullivan is an anomaly.

Largely because he can carry a conversation and doesn’t wear a pocket protector. Well, maybe he does, but his personality is vastly different. “I gave a speech once to the American Institute of CPAs. The audience was full of accountants and if I made a joke or tried to imbue the talk with some humor, they just stared at me.”

He’s had the opportunity throughout his career to interview the biggest, the brightest, and most influential people in history.

He recalled the time he was in the green room waiting for Dr. Billy Graham. Sullivan said he was lucky to be able to chat with the man for half an hour.

“I asked him how he became a world-famous world leader. He said, ‘Tom, I’ve been given a gift by God. There are ministers that know more about the Bible than I do. I was given a gift to explain it simply’. I thought that was a good plan, explaining concepts to people in a relatable fashion”

As he sees the world today, Sullivan said it’s a mess, but not a total loss.

“I’m not a pessimist by nature,” Sullivan said. “I get a lot of callers who think we’re in doomsville. I don’t. We’re going through a tough day, in some ways. I’ve seen worse times. I lived through the 60s. I saw a president gunned down. I saw Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King get gunned down. I saw riots and mayhem. Things aren’t so bad.”

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BNM Writers

Michael Berry Doesn’t Want to Be All Serious All the Time

“I get to entertain everyday and people come and listen to me. That really — more than anything else — is the thrill.”

Garrett Searight



A photo of Michael Berry

There are plenty of nationally syndicated radio shows that began as local shows. Not many hosts, however, have both a local radio show and a nationally syndicated show each weekday. But Michael Berry isn’t your average radio talk show host.

In addition to hosting a local show on NewsRadio 740 KTRH, Berry hosts The Michael Berry Show on more than 40 stations throughout the nation. And he believes having a local show in his hometown market — Houston — while still getting to talk about national topics on his afternoon show is the ideal situation for him.

“It lets me sort of keep my hand in two very different pies and do two very different shows. And that fulfills me,” Berry said. “I wouldn’t want to do just one or just the other. And I think part of it — I was the Mayor Pro Tem of the city of Houston, so I got very involved and very entrenched in the political world. I know a lot of the restaurant owners, I know a lot of business owners, and I really enjoy making the fourth-largest city into a tiny town for our listeners.

“But I also want to be able to talk to a national audience on a national level. I get to do both of those. I think that’s ideal for me.”

Michael Berry served on the City Council in Houston from 2002-2008, which gives him a unique perspective about both local and national politics that many others in the format don’t have.

“I think the experience of how bills are made and the backroom deals and how they’re done, I think that informs my opinions in a way that if you haven’t done that, it makes it harder to understand,” said Berry. “Also the blocking and tackling of how you get bills passed and how you win elections and those sorts of things.

“It just gives you that experience and it also helps you understand when a politician or an elected official says something that seems to go against what he believes or what he promised. You have a better sense of ‘Ok, who did he sell out to? Why did he do that? Where is the pressure point?’

“Because I think listeners want to understand not just why is Mitch McConnell doing something that feels like it’s against what the base is doing. The better question is, what’s the pressure point? What’s driving him? Who’s pushing him into that corner? And I think when you’re in the process, you get a very good sense of that.”

One could refer to Michael Berry as an almost new-age news/talk host. While one of the large criticisms of conservative talk radio today is the vitriol and anger most hosts present on the air, Berry is often presenting the opposite. Oftentimes, his show isn’t centered on conservative political viewpoints at all. A constant presentation of hope, admiration, and excitement not just about politics but about culture and the conservative lifestyle is the backbone of Berry’s program.

And while he has an affinity for those inside the conservative talk radio format, he simply believes he’s filling a different, virtually unoccupied, lane.

“There are some brilliant people out there on the radio. Sean Hannity has access to every elected official. Clay (Travis) and Buck (Sexton) are getting access to anybody they want as a guest. Mark Levin is a brilliant mind, a brilliant legal mind. (Glenn) Beck has a great perspective from decades of experience. Dan Bongino’s a really smart guy. There’s some really, really clever, smart, experienced broadcasters. I don’t need to be a lighter version of them, which is all I could ever hope to be. I want to be who I am,” admitted Berry.

“And I don’t see myself as competing with them. I wouldn’t want to. They’re all wonderful. We can all coexist, but I don’t want to watch the same show 24 hours a day. I want to create content that is different than other people are doing,” Berry continued. “Not because I’m better or they’re not good, but because I don’t think I can do it as well as they can. So I want to do what I do well.”

Michael Berry free admits he’d get bored simply sticking to the conservative political script for two separate shows each day. That’s why weaving other topics into his program continues to excite him.

“If all you do is what I call angry, old white man radio, you can’t build an audience and you can’t keep an audience. And the reason is that it becomes tedious. It becomes a chore to listen to. And everybody has heard that type of program that never laughs at anything and especially not that itself. We want to make people laugh. We want to talk about real life things, as well. We don’t have to talk politics 24/7.

“When I think about the influence in this country, on the culture, comedians have always had such an influence. The reason is that when you’re laughing, you’re thinking, and you’re engaging and you’re building your bond. I think that one of the great barriers to success in radio and success for the conservative movement is the inability to bond on the deeper level of let’s share a laugh.

“I think there is a great joy when I find that I’m making a point that I consider to be important, and yet in the middle of it, we can all laugh.”

Ultimately, Michael Berry doesn’t view his role in talk radio as a political pontificator, conservative advocate, or a preacher from behind the Republican pulpit. He views his craft from a completely different angle.

“I view myself as an entertainer. The hardcore conservative listeners don’t like me to say that because that means you must not mean what you say, or you’re not serious. I mean every word I say. And I’m very serious,” Berry stated. “But I’m serious in the way Dave Chappelle is serious. And make no mistake, Dave Chappelle is having a huge influence in America today on how we view the First Amendment or the concepts of freedom of thought…the reason is, is because he’s dead serious while making you laugh.

“When I was really deciding that this was a career I wanted to pursue…I went and studied stand-up comics, because I felt like that was the place. Otherwise, I would just mimic the guys that were already successful, and I didn’t want to do that,” Berry continued. “I felt dishonest about that.

“So what I did, instead, is I went and studied comedians, and delivery and how you engage an audience and how you hold an audience and how you make a point without beating the audience over the head with it. And how you go from point to point, how you pivot, how you make it fun. A lot of these are sort of back porch conversation tricks, you know, parlor games of, of how we keep a conversation going except it’s a one one man conversation without it feeling like I’m lecturing you.”

During our conversation, Michael Berry admitted he can hear hosts around the country who have lost the will to create compelling content, who say things they don’t believe, and are no longer in love with the format that once enticed them to join the industry.

However, he’s made a vow to never lose the excitement that comes with working in a format he still thoroughly enjoys.

“I view it as I get to wake up every day excited to go to the studio. My dad worked for 40 years at a plant in the maintenance unit and he hated every day of it. But he had all us kids to take care of. I get to entertain every day and people come and listen to me,” he shared. “That really, more than anything else, that is the thrill. I know that sounds hokey, but it’s true.

“I think that most people probably don’t love what they do…I’m a megalomaniac. We all have to be to have the audacity to think that you can talk every day and people want to hear you, but I love it. It’s a thrill. I love to talk and I love to create stories and I love to create entertainment and create content. And when I hear from people that in some way they enjoyed it. It’s more rewarding than you can imagine, in the way that it would be for a pastor, or a comedian, or a songwriter, or a singer. It is incredibly rewarding.

“We live in an abundance of riches when it comes to content…but for them to choose to come and say I’m gonna let you entertain me,” Michael Berry concluded. “That is the ultimate compliment.”

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Do Radio Hosts Actually Care About What They’re Talking About?

So many shows do topics because they feel like they have to. Maybe the topic’s trending. Maybe it’s leading the news. But if you don’t care, listeners will notice.



A photo of a radio studio

If you don’t care, why should anyone else care about what you do?

That’s one reason why I didn’t watch the NBA All-Star Game Sunday night. You don’t get a 211-186 final if anyone is remotely making any effort at all. It’s an extended version of the pre-game warmup. Everyone’s throwing up threes with no defense. They might as well break into a layup drill. Nobody wants to get injured in a meaningless game. I’ve endured a lot of All-Star games among the major sports leagues, and I stopped bothering to watch years ago. I haven’t missed much.

That translates to other realms as well. This column focuses on the media, so if you’re, say, a talk radio host, you should be asking yourself whether you really care about what you’re talking about. That’s the threshold question: Do you care? Because if you don’t, are you really going to put in the effort to make the topic entertaining so that other people – your listeners – care enough to listen and stay with you for the whole segment?

So many shows do topics because they feel like they have to. Maybe the topic’s trending. Maybe it’s leading the news. But if you don’t care, listeners will notice. And “I don’t care about it” isn’t a particularly compelling talk radio topic, is it?

It’s easier for local sports talk – it’s a given that whatever you’re ranting about and whatever take you have, listeners care because, well, who listens to sports radio and doesn’t care about what’s going on (All-Star Games notwithstanding)?

News organizations, on the other hand, have a different goal: If it’s news that on the surface is dry and boring but still matters, it’s the reporters’ and editors’ job to explain why a viewer or reader should care. Ukraine or Gaza might seem remote to a lot of people, but their importance to a typical U.S. citizen can’t be understated, and it’s important (and often forgotten) to emphasize why they matter and what impact they have on everyone.

The simple fact is that the energy you project on anything you talk about or report upon is a reflection of what you have invested in the story. You can fake enthusiasm, but if you just truly don’t care about Taylor and Travis, you’ll just be going through the motions and that’s what the audience perceives.

On the other hand, if you’ve invested a lot of time digging into an arcane financial story and you know that what seems like a remote, inscrutable radio topic may have profound consequences for many consumers, emphasize that and make clear why the viewer or reader should care, and do it right out of the gate to grab their attention.

Here, a digression: Why do they even bother with the actual All-Star Game anymore? Take the NBA All-Star Weekend: Nobody will remember anything about the game (other than that one team scored over 200 points) but everyone will remember the Steph Curry-Sabrina Ionescu shootout. They may remember Mac McClung’s repeat dunk contest win or the celebrity game or Rising Stars games.

Why not just do the skills and challenges, which are usually entertaining, and skip the All-Star Game itself, which isn’t? Maybe add some contests and honors for past greats. Most of the people who trek to the All-Star venue are there for the parties anyway. And with baseball now doing interleague play all season, none of the All-Star Games involve getting to see players who don’t normally face each other in the regular season face off. They don’t need a game nobody in it wants to play. I recognize this will never happen.

But the main takeaway here is that it’s less true that you can’t make someone care about a thing they don’t care about themselves than it is true that if you don’t care, you have zero chance making anyone else care. Your poker face isn’t that good.

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Radio Was Built For Charity and Volunteer Work

Your charitable activities build a better world. Your radio show and station make a real difference.

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A photo of a volunteer

Art Bell once said, “We are all here for a Cosmic Blink. Use your time wisely.”  The wisest man in all of history, a fellow named Solomon said, “Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.” All of us are drawn to radio for usually a basic human impulse…it is a narcissistic rage that exists in every baby. Look at me! Listen to me! My opinions are important!

Unless you are a completely narcissistic fool, you have looked in the mirror and wondered about why we are here. What is your worth in the cosmic blink? Ok, let old Uncle Peter (Yes, I went full third person) explain.

We have all been given an amazing platform. Not only to spout our beliefs, biases, and humor, but to touch our communities. Does your show have a charity? Why not? Does your station have a charity or a “Day of Action” to support local causes? The answer should be yes. Radio shows and stations raise millions of dollars to improve our society. We raise awareness of issues that create change. It is why we are here. 

Before I give you some random idea starters for your show/station, let’s talk about the charities that you personally support. Do you give a portion of your income to religious, humanitarian, or conservation projects that you believe in? You should if you don’t make these donations. I don’t know what floats your boat, but I think it is important psychologically to donate to organizations that do good things in our world. 

These donations allow a portion of the cosmic blink of our lives to pay it forward. Even if you don’t make a lot of money, a small donation helps you feel connected to our world. If you are particularly blessed by the fruits of your hard work, make that donation bigger. Investing in the charities and religious organizations of our choice gives us significance. Instead of the narcissistic screaming for change, it is an action step.

Your show can unify your community through service. There was a movement that is still going on today by some churches that take a Sunday off from a religious service to spend their day serving their communities. This can be painting an elderly widow’s home, cleaning a park, feeding the homeless, or other things. If you speak to homeless shelters, lots of people want to volunteer on Thanksgiving morning, but not so much in the middle of February. 

So how about a day of service for your radio show? Reach out to a local charity that needs volunteers and make it an all-day affair. Perhaps you can do your show from the homeless shelter. Interview the people who serve the downtrodden every day or interview listeners who donated their day with you? Make it big and use your platform to make someone’s life better.

For those of you who have been doing radio for a decade or less, I have had listeners reach out to me about something that I said on the air 25 years ago. It’s very humbling. Every day you get on the air trying to perform. Heck, have you ever wanted to scream “Is anyone listening?” I have. I had someone reach out to me on Twitter to share a moment that meant so much to him. When those moments happen, I thank them for listening and what an honor it was to impact their memories in such a way. You are making a difference for people every day. 

Your station may broadcast a big charitable event each year. Be involved in every aspect of the planning process. Buy in 100%. When you take full ownership of the station event, your interest will take this fundraiser to the next level. Talk about a way to build goodwill in the community. 

Do you want to create an unbreakable bond? Help a local charity. You will go viral. Take selfies with all of the volunteers and organizers. Put this on your social media. Make it big. Do something that makes a difference. Go to their events and volunteer to do anything. Likely, you will be an emcee, but, if they want you to wrap presents, shovel up some stuff do it. Be a servant. 

In our post-COVID world, I keep reading about disconnection. Civic groups and religious organizations are experiencing a crisis of participation. This is terrible. Our society’s drift into solitude is damaging. Census figures show that the average household size in the USA is about 2.5 people. This means there are a lot of people sitting in a home or apartment alone. These people are disconnected from society. They go to work, go home, and live their solitary life online. Humans are not built for this. Your radio show is a connection for them. By the way: Your community’s average age is probably around 37 years. Think of this. You are a lynchpin for building community. Your station’s charitable events help people belong to something greater than themselves.

You are an influencer. Be a leader. Build a community. Create belonging.

Your charitable activities build a better world. Your radio show and station make a real difference.

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