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Reviewing The Annual Radio Physical – Jacobs Media Techsurvey

The device called “the radio” is disappearing. That is not good for the radio industry. It costs listenership.

Andy Bloom



The annual physical exam of radio results, the Jacobs Media Techsurvey 23 results, were recently presented by Fred Jacobs.

The data shows that radio’s audience continues to get chipped away slowly. The study shows the industry’s best opportunities to hold on to its audience are through utilizing as many distribution methods as possible, taking advantage of localization and star personalities, understanding the new realities of who is listening and where, and clinging to the sacred space on the automobile’s dashboard that radio has held for so long.

The industry will either fight together to preserve that space on the dashboard or watch listening continue to erode at a more rapid pace.

The results are more stable than the past few years, suggesting we have reached or are approaching “a new normal.” Part of what it looks like includes a sizable portion of the population that works all of the time or part of the time from home. That has implications for broadcasters.

Some of the things that broadcasters did during Covid, both good and bad, have stuck. Radio’s efforts to be “local” are noticed. On the other hand, the continual reductions in workforce may have come at a cost.

There are generational differences that radio broadcasters will eventually have to pay for. Gen X is at the edge of the broadcast world. Millennials and Gen Z are light years different than prior generations.

The device called “the radio” is disappearing. That is not good for the radio industry. It costs listenership. The digital options replacing “radios” also have more content options. We’ve seen what has happened to listening levels over the past ten years as people have moved away from radios and to digital devices.

Continuing to cut high-value content creators and over-commercialize every hour of the day will send listeners to options they know they have on their smartphones and speakers.

Radio broadcasters must be better than the non-broadcast competition in every aspect to win when distribution is no longer an advantage. Broadcasters cannot afford more unforced errors.

The subscription model is wearing thin. Techsurvey touched on the subject. In a world where consumers feel over-subscribed, broadcasters who couple strong local community involvement with popular personalities may find that free is radio’s killer app.

Among Techsurvey 2023 respondents, podcasting is over-saturated. I interpret the data as meaning there is more upside in better mobile apps and smart speaker skills delivering the primary content. Success still requires focus and concentration of resources.

If you don’t like numbers, read the bold headlines, and you’ll get the drift of each section.

Here is a review of key points of the data:

Techsurvey is a 30,000-person survey. Over 400 radio stations participated. Respondents are primarily from the stations’ databases. Thus, the results may or may not represent the entire population. They are most likely representative of the stations’ P1 listeners. The survey was conducted from January 4 – February 7, 2023.

Cume Stabilizes

After a four-year slump, cume held flat from 2022 to 2023, with 86% of the sample saying they listen to AM/FM radio for at least an hour each weekday. Between 2018 and 2022, the figure dropped each year, sliding from 92% to 86%.

Listening levels are highest among Boomers and Gen X and lowest among Millennials and Gen Z.

Steady Momentum

The numbers saying they listen to radio more, less, and about the same have stabilized at about pre-Covid levels.

Except for the Covid year (2021), between 56% and 60% of respondents say they listen to about the same amount of radio as a year ago; 12 or 13% say less, and 15 or 16% say more.

The Reasons They Listen

As subscription fees for content pile up, something the study addresses later, the importance of free has never been higher. Comparing how many don’t listen to podcasts, how easy it is to access radio content shouldn’t be discounted.

There are three reasons again this year that reached 60%

  • Easiest to listen to in the car (67%)
  • It’s free (64%)
  • Personalities (60%)

Several secondary reasons strike emotional chords reached into the 50s.

  • Habit (56%)
  • Feel a connection with the radio (52%) – interestingly, the younger end and music stations score highest here. Potentially something N/T and Sports stations may want to investigate in their research.
  • Like to work with the radio (50%)

Others with significant scores that are emotional connections include:

  • Keeps me company.
  • What’s going on locally. Measured separately as an agree/disagree statement, 57% strongly agree that “one of radio’s primary advantages is its local feel.” This trended up from low to mid 40% before Covid to 49% and now 57%.
  • To be informed about the news
  • To be informed in an emergency
  • Talk shows.

Meeting The Audience Where They Are

One of Jacobs’ main points was that stations have to meet the audience where they are, and they aren’t where they used to be. The survey shows that 3% of respondents are unemployed. As Jacobs said, this is consistent with the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). Among those working, over one-third work from home at least part of the time.

Among News/Talk and Sports format P1s, 48 and 47 percent, respectively, work from home at least part of the time. These findings have profound implications for how these stations program, promote, and market.

Personalities VS. Music. Personalities Win, But The Gap Closes From 7 to 3 Points

In 2019, personalities surpassed music as the leading primary reason for listening to their station. The percentage that says personalities have grown, even if by just a small amount each year. This year it fell, albeit slightly.

Jacobs points to something in the data that may hint at why the value of personalities drops and the gap between music and personalities closes. Among those who say they are listening to less radio, 27% say because “the station they liked changed format or fired a personality.” Another 12% “say there are no DJs or personalities I care about”. In addition to the people who have been fired or laid off, there have been many high-profile retirements over the past year.

Then there are what Jacobs calls the “unforced errors.” Too many commercials is at the top of the list at 31%.

While radio is losing, for whatever reason, many of its biggest stars and adding units at will, it’s facing more competition than ever, and the audience knows it.

38% say they are listening less because they have more audio options in the car (38% this year vs. 33% last year).

Another 34% say they have more streaming options, including Pandora or Spotify (vs. 27% in 2022)

And 32% say they are using mobile phone apps more too.

Radio is losing listenership because of a combination of people working from home, losing its stars, bad programming decisions (or what Jacobs calls unforced errors), and consumers having more choices than ever.

The device known as “a radio” is gradually disappearing.

Fewer than eight in ten now have a “radio” where they live.

In 2018, 83% had a  radio in their homes. It was flat at 81% for the past three years before dropping to 78% this year.

Among millennials, only 67% have a radio where they live.

Listening is rapidly trending away from radio devices and toward digital devices. The glass is half-empty because as listening moves to digital devices, the radio industry will split audio entertainment time with more sources. The glass is half-full if it can compete on a range of platforms because radio has established brands, stars, and content.

Among all listeners, 58% listen on traditional devices, while 38% are on digital devices. Last year it was 61% – 35%. Ten years ago, it was 85% on traditional devices to 14% on digital devices.

Among those who work from home 100% of the time, 51% listen on traditional devices, while 43% listen on digital devices.

We’ve seen what has happened to listening levels over the past ten years as people stopped listening on radios and gravitated to computer streams, smartphones, and other devices. It won’t take another ten years for the lines to cross. It doesn’t take a clairvoyant to see what will happen when it does. Broadcasters cannot afford to make more unforced errors.

Among Sports Station P1 listeners, 47% listen on traditional devices, with 46% listening on digital devices. In 2022, 51% of listening was on traditional and 46% on digital devices.

News/Talk Station P1 listeners may hang in there the longest, with 62% still on traditional devices vs. 33% on digital ones. In Techsurvey 22, it was 65-31%.

Smart Speakers and Mobile Apps Replacing Radio Devices For Listening Destinations

Smart speakers appeared to stall at 35% ownership in the past two surveys amidst reports of privacy concerns and ho-hum consumer interest. This year the category jumped three points to 38%. One of the top actions respondents report doing with their smart speakers is listening to the radio. Although radio devices didn’t offer other alternatives, smart speakers offer radio stations opportunities, particularly among Millennials and Gen Xers.

Likewise, mobile apps can turn a smartphone into listening opportunities for radio stations. App downloads have stalled at about four out of ten among these respondents, with Gen Xers, Boomers, and especially sports station P1 listeners leading the way. News/Talk listeners are below the average, suggesting it is an area for these stations to improve.

Respondents estimated that the majority of their time in the car is spent listening to radio (54%), with 45% listening to other sources – SiriusXM leading the way at 19%, followed by their personal music at 9%.

The trend has eroded from 62% radio in 2018 to 54% this year. Millennials already consume more non-radio audio in the car (57%) than radio (41%).

In-car listening is at the tipping point among sports station P1 listeners, with 50% of their time in the car spent listening to radio and 48% listening to other audio.

News/Talk station partisans still spend the most time (59%) listening to the radio in the car and 39% to other audio.

The connected car is the next threat to radio listening.

In Techsurvey 23, just under one-third own a car with an in-car media system (32%, up from 30% in 2022 and 27% in the prior two years). Sports radio fans lead the way at 38%.

Among those who already own a connected car, the paradigm has already shifted; they estimate they listen to other audio 52% of the time and radio 46% of the time.

Media Pyramid

Techsurvey 23 Measures 17 Types of Media. Good research should yield the same results in various ways. In Techsurvey 23, indeed, that happens. For example, in the Media Pyramid, AM/FM Radio shows up with the same 86% one hour or more per day weekday listening as in the listenership question. Smart speakers show up with the identical 35 to 38% increase year over year again in this section.

Of the 17 media types, 12 are up, two are down, and three are flat. Smartphones continue to grow, up two points and matching TV/Video at 94%. The biggest gainers are Hearables (+8), Smartwatches (+7), and Smart TVs (+6).

Although most media participation among News/Talk format fans is up compared to the prior year, they remain at or below the average for everything except satellite radio at 34%, up 1% compared to last year and compared to 28% for the overall sample.

Sports format fans are also up versus the prior year in almost all media except, oddly, satellite radio (37% vs. 39% last year). Unlike News/Talk format fans, Sports format fans are over the average in almost every area, except video games, where participation is seven points below the average (35% vs. 42%).

Brand Pyramids

Among Social Media brands, Facebook remains the giant with 68% weekly users. It’s noticeably weaker among News/Talk and Sports P1 listeners, where just under 60% use it weekly. Among Sports format fans, Netflix has slightly more weekly users.

The three brands where News/Talk fans outperformed the average are Nextdoor, Sirius/XM, and the station’s stream. Year-to-year, Twitter has made the largest gains among News/Talk P1 listeners, up six points to 21%. YouTube, Facebook, and the P1 station’s stream have each gained four points year over year.

Sports station P1 listeners use Twitter 20 points more than the average, and less surprisingly, Amazon Prime Video 10 points more than the average, SiriusXM, and Linkedin nine points more than average. Amazon Prime Video has made the greatest gains year over year progress with sports listeners, up seven points from Techsurvey 22.

Subscription Services

Nearly nine out of ten subscribe to at least one streaming video service, and almost eight out of ten say they have two or more. Seven in ten are with the statement, “I am concerned about the growing number of subscription fees I pay for media content.” Over 40% say they agree strongly with the statement.

Podcasting Continues to Grow – Slowly, Enthusiasm Wanes

Podcasting continues its slow march, increasing from 30 to 33% who listen to at least one podcast weekly. However, 37% never listen to a podcast and another 21% say they listen to less than one a month, which is almost never.

There is more interest among Gen Z and Millennials and Spoken Word partisans.

Jacobs’ comment about enthusiasm comes when he shows the trend of listeners who say they are listening to more podcasts this year than last. The percentage was 40 and 41% three and four years ago but has slipped to 31% this year.

It’s among radio station database listeners. There may be a different audience for podcasts, but with limited resources, wouldn’t radio be better off dedicating them to focusing on the core product and shoring up its digital delivery while protecting its space on the dashboard?

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The Problem With Radio Interviews and How to Make Them Better

Most interviews suck. Most interviews have little reason to exist in the first place, not if the host, anchor, or reporter isn’t going to ask the tough questions the audience wants answered.



What was the last interview you remember? I’ll wait. Yeah, not so easy. Most interviews on radio, TV, or podcasts, or in print, are anything but memorable.

Either nobody says anything other than the usual platitudes, or the host fawns over, and tosses softballs at, the guest. The only thing accomplished is to fill a segment the easy way — hey, the guest is doing all the work! Cool! — and the host is, ideally, maintaining access to the guest while pleasing some publicist who will, the producer hopes, send more clients to the show. Everybody wins, right?

What about the audience?

Most interviews suck. Most interviews have little reason to exist in the first place, not if the host, anchor, or reporter isn’t going to ask the tough questions the audience wants answered. Is it entertaining or enlightening to a radio listener or cable news viewer if an interview consists of stock answers, vague platitudes, or ridiculous opinions met with zero resistance from the interviewer? Who wants to hear that? Yet that’s what I see, hear, and read everywhere.

Nobody gets challenged, and in the rare instances when they do get challenged, the interviewer invariably lets them off the hook. Follow-ups are non-existent. Wild claims are unchallenged. And those are among the more interesting interviews, because at least there’s some animated discussion. Others are deadly dull, too polite, interviewers afraid to make things too uncomfortable.

Uncomfortable can be, of course, the kind of memorable interview that people talk about years later, the kind that can define a host and show. I’ve written before about how I saw the light when I was programming New Jersey 101.5 and, from the front hallway of the studio, I suddenly heard John Kobylt (now at KFI Los Angeles) and Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) in a shouting match. I don’t even remember what they were arguing about, but it was a talk show host and a sitting U.S. Senator on the phone screaming at each other and I ran towards the studio, then stopped in my tracks.

Yeah, it was a Senator, but so what? Senators are just people, but also people who owe their constituents answers. John was representing our listeners. I let it go on. And our ratings reflected that attitude: We used our access to get answers for the audience, and they appreciated it. Politeness may get you invited to campaign events and press conferences, but you don’t work for political parties, sports franchises, or college athletic programs, you’re the proxy for the people, and yourself.

(Lately, it’s been fun to watch Jake Tapper let the Philly come through and be more aggressive with politicians; “Be more Philadelphia” is a good rule of thumb, although I might be biased in that regard….)

There are other radio examples, too, from Tom Bauerle in Buffalo challenging Hillary Clinton to Dan Le Batard confronting MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred over the Marlins’ tanking to the recent WFAN/Carl Banks brouhaha, and you surely have other examples, probably because they’re the interviews you remember. (We can skip over Jim Rome vs. Jim Everett, okay?) Honestly, whether they’re pundits bloviating on cable about the latest breaking news or a coach or player spouting the same safe canned responses after every game (“Why didn’t you go for it on 4th and 2?” “We’ll have to try harder next week, but give credit to the other guys’ defense”), the world, and your ratings, would probably be better off without those interviews.

But if you insist on doing a lot of interviews…

1. Listen. Yes, this has become a cliche. So many great interviewers have said this that it’s hard to figure out who said it first. It’s true, though. Prepare all the questions you need in advance — more than you need, really — but when you ask a question, don’t let your eyes move down the page to the next question on the list. Just listen to the answer, because more often than not there will be an opportunity to….

2. Follow up. This is not optional, especially entering an election year when misinformation is going to continue to be rampant. You know when you’re watching a cable news anchor talking to a politician or pundit and the latter says something outrageous and unsupportable and the interviewer just moves on? You know how you want to throw things at your TV when that happens? Don’t be that interviewer. Better yet….

3. Insist on an answer. If the subject doesn’t really answer the question, ASK IT AGAIN. Repeat until you get a commitment. No need to defer to someone who’s avoiding your questions. At least get them on record as refusing to answer the question – and point that out — before you move on.

4. This is out of order, but before you even book the interview, ask yourself: Is this what the audience wants or needs? Is this going to be entertaining or informative, or preferably both? Are people going to remember this past the second it ends? Might this make news or is it just going to sit there accomplishing nothing? Why am I doing this? (The latter question is apropos for everything in life, by the way, and the answer isn’t always pretty.)

It’s not to say that you need to be a jerk to guests, or that you can resort to name-calling or low blows. To the contrary, asking good, tough questions is a sign of respect, a sign you think they can handle it. If they can’t, it’s on them. If you’re the host, anchor, or reporter, you’re in control. Use it.

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How to Take Your Personal Brand to the Next Level

Always respect your brand’s relationship with the station. You are a 24-hour-a-day goodwill ambassador for your employer. Always keep that in the forefront of your skull. 

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You have probably heard about having a personal brand. Well, we all have a brand. 

The definition according to the American Marketing Association: “Personal branding is the act of promoting yourself as a brand by crafting a distinct identity, reputation, and online presence to showcase your skills, expertise, and personality. This type of branding is normally used by professionals, influencers, and entrepreneurs to enhance their careers, attract opportunities, and build a strong online presence.”

How do you represent yourself on the air? Do you have an identity that makes you unique?  What is it? Are you presenting a show that is on-brand? Is there an aspect of your show that makes it special? I have asked these questions to several hosts over the years and when left to identify these attributes…  They can’t. It takes soul searching, it takes a bit of honesty, and it also takes some courage. There is an old marketing adage when it comes to presenting anything to the consumer. What makes your show new, better, and different? I will give you some strategies to develop your personal brand on the air. 

What about your personal brand in life? When you walk into the store, restaurant, or your chosen house of worship, do you present yourself like a star? Gene Simmons of the band KISS once said that rock stars should always look like it whenever they go outside. Do you present yourself as you wish to be perceived? Is it on-brand? 

Longtime talk show host and Founder of the Guardian Angels, Curtis Sliwa is always in uniform. He is wearing a beret and a red jacket with the Guardian Angels Logo. I worked with Curtis for almost 4 years, I only saw him out of uniform twice. A lot of talk show hosts are somewhat shy and socially awkward. Hosts frequently only come alive when there is a microphone in front of them. This is a total mistake. 

Friday Night, I made a work appearance. I worked the crowd, but I was hungry. So, I stopped at a local restaurant, bellied up to the bar, and enjoyed dinner with a beer. Well, one of the businessmen at this establishment recognized me. He moved over and sat near me. I spoke with him for 40 minutes as I enjoyed my beverage and meal. This listener introduced me to everyone at the bar. He must be a regular. 

I followed my tradition of only having one beer. I was on brand. After I was recognized, I had a conversation about the show and the station. I was not dismissive of either being recognized. I didn’t try to diminish my job. Be a regular person when approached. Your show persona and personal presentation may be a little different. Your listeners don’t understand that. I mention this because I have observed radio and TV people just come across as either rude, aloof, or just nutty.

Your station’s brand will always be associated with your personal brand. How many hosts do you know who made the move across town and just got crushed? The ratings sucked, the fit was bad, and the revenue was in the toilet after 12 months into that new gig. 

Always respect your brand’s relationship with the station. You are a 24-hour-a-day goodwill ambassador for your employer. Always keep that in the forefront of your skull. 

I worked with an amazing talent years ago who was really the backbone of the station in the market. He had been in that community for 30 years. Everyone knew him. This guy had a hair-trigger temper, though. I got a call from a listener who was on a roadcrew, and my guy screamed at him over a traffic delay. 

The listener was really sorry that he yelled at my guy. The road crew member wanted to write the talk show host a note of apology. I took that as a learning tool. I called my host and told him about the call. My host dropped the “Do you know who I am?” line on this poor dude. I brought that up. The host was crestfallen. I had to inform him that he was always an ambassador of the station’s brand. 

I also let him know that the “Do you know who I am?” line is a finesse play and should be only used in rare situations. I was also able to bust his chops over this for years. We shared a laugh each time that it was brought up. Don’t let your ego hurt your station. 

So…how do you develop your own brand? I hate to inform you of this, you have one. Now, you have to understand what it is. You also need to understand the three legs of the personal branding stool. What makes you new, better, and different? Ultimately, this should be the goal of every marketing plan. Once you understand these three things, you will have the basics for developing your personal brand. 

Your brand should also be a listener-focused exercise. Once you have your brand in hand, figure out if you need to adjust your public persona. How does that look? Think of the Gene Simmons statement. What do people want to see? How should you present yourself? Think about you should dress. How should you act? The answers are unique to you. 

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Can News/Talk Radio Be the Opposite of the Thanksgiving Table?

I wonder if the delicate dance between honesty and not wanting to offend is the same at the “table” as it is on the radio airwaves. Regardless, the prospect of conversations in both places can be both refreshing and frightening.



A photo of a family dinner

As we get overnight Truth Social rants from Donald Trump, Hunter Biden’s laptop trending, another presidential debate, and more calls for anyone but a Trump-Biden race, the whole ability to be politically independent seems to be increasingly difficult, whether it be on the radio or at the dinner table.

First, what does it actually mean to be independent? Everyone likes to say they’re independent, but before judging them on their merits, what are the defining criteria?

It’s not about objectivity vs. subjectivity. No one is truly objective, so let’s get past that middle school comparison. I view the concept of political independence as two things: Intellectual flexibility and partisan separation.

The first term involves the ability to react to new, different, and dynamic information and actually adjust a viewpoint. Ardent partisans call this flip-flopping. I call it a saving grace of the free mind (cue Matrix theme music). You should be able to evolve and shift a position based on learning. Most adults are not able or willing to do this (see my old column on silos).

Partisan separation is an offshoot of the willingness to be intellectually flexible. If you are 100 percent beholden to a party, you cannot be intellectually flexible. As a human and as a morning radio host, that’s an untenable place to occupy – IMHO, as the young’uns say.

When I review my portfolio of political views, thoughts, and feelings, I accept some that are considered conservative, and others that look progressive, while still possessing several moderate stances as well. The point is not to blindly follow a line; follow what your senses tell you, even if it’s not consistently one side or the other.

Think of it as split-ticket voting, but on issues and not candidates – and try doing it on an ongoing basis.

Critics on either side may say you flip flop or even some call you a coward. I am fine with that, and every day on the air, I am working on the courage to embrace all 360 degrees of my views without fear of the response. My agenda is not to have an agenda.

So, some two weeks after Thanksgiving, I am still processing the many hours of conversation at the “table”. I put that in quotations because we don’t actually have a sit-down meal. With 35 or so people, we set up the food buffet-style and let everyone have at it.

I wonder if the delicate dance between honesty and not wanting to offend is the same at the “table” as it is on the radio airwaves. Regardless, the prospect of conversations in both places can be both refreshing and frightening.

Personally, I like to go there right away and then assess whether it’s worth staying there. At my holiday meal, there were so many options for people to talk to – one could just float around the rooms — and the outs are easy. I could get more food, hit the bathroom, or the simple need to catch up with someone else. As the alcohol flowed, so did the more political conversations.

I know not to give my end-of-day thoughts with the close relatives; I keep that kind of candor to crazy cousins and their spouses.

My wife’s extended family is mostly New England Democrats with a smattering of shy-about-it Republicans. In the past, we’ve had drunken tears over political issues – including one fantastic meltdown over a relative’s vote for Trump — but it’s been mostly quiet for the last few years. Having said that it’s clear that a truly independent – or rather, open-minded – approach is precarious.

Here are some areas, questions, and stances where I’ve learned people get upset, and more disturbingly, judge you — whether it be on the radio or at the dinner “table”. These are all things we should be able to discuss without fear:

Can’t you truly want to expand the vote to the most people possible but also wonder about the merits of voter ID and absentee ballot security?

If you worry about the concept of late-term abortion, you are pro-life.

And If you question the border policy, you are anti-immigrant.

If you at least acknowledge the fact that the world actually seemed more peaceful three years ago, you might as well have a MAGA flag in your bedroom.

Question President Biden’s age? people think you’re going to vote for Donald Trump.

If you lament the death of Palestinian civilians, you are anti-Israel.

If you correct the misuse of the term genocide, it means you support genocide.

Think the government has the potential to be a force for good? You’re a spend-thirsty liberal.

If you want to save Social Security by raising the earnings cap, you’re a tax-thirsty liberal.

If you recognize white privilege and still want to work out how to make opportunity fair in this country, you’re anti-white.

Want to at least brainstorm on what reparations would look like? You are also anti-white.

If you are curious about whether there should be some sort of line at some point between boys and girls sports, you are anti-trans.

If you argue for true free speech, you get in trouble on both sides.

And if you think market-based solutions can work, you are an elitist.

I could go on and on, but you get the point. Exploring these issues should not mean an absolute commitment to a stance. These are evolving subjects, and there has to be an evolving discourse in order to even have a chance at intellectual flexibility.

Do I have an answer for how to do this? No. Am I still hesitant to approach some of these topics on the air? Yes. Will I continue to test things when it feels appropriate? Absolutely.

In radio, getting there remains a work in progress, but even though I want to work in the middle a lot, it does not mean that I want to be stuck there.

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